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Forum question posed: Would an airplane on a gigantic treadmill be able to takeoff? (17:32:04) BobCortex: i get the whole gyst of the dumb argument(17:32:17) BobCortex: figured i'd ask someone who flys the things (17:32:37) Eclipse: if the engines are going, the plane will leave the treadmill (17:33:08) BobCortex: even if the treadmill can keep it from actually moving foward? (17:33:12) Eclipse: its like pulling a wagon, the wheels dont do the pulling (17:33:21) BobCortex: right (17:33:25) Eclipse: the wheels just let you move (17:33:34) BobCortex: plane with breaks on and full power wont move or take off (17:33:41) Eclipse: a treadmill would change the speed of the wheels, but not the body of the plane (17:33:50) Eclipse: right (17:34:29) BobCortex: its some weird physics question (17:34:48) BobCortex: plane + treadmill that can keep up with the plane. prefect world physics (17:35:09) BobCortex: people come up with all sorts of junk (17:35:15) BobCortex: like wheels dont do jack (17:35:22) BobCortex: planes can take off on water (17:36:08) BobCortex: but i always kinds thought the engines kinda moved air over the wings (17:36:15) BobCortex: at least with props (17:36:42) Eclipse: the engines pull the airplane forward, wheter its a prop or a jet (a jet is a prop with a cone around it) (17:37:03) Eclipse: the moving airplane causes lift under the wings (17:37:03) BobCortex: but i guess if the plane is not moving. the wings arn't moving. thusly lift is not being generated (17:37:13) BobCortex: therefore sits still? (17:37:21) Eclipse: correct (17:37:31) BobCortex: if eclipse says its so i can sleep easier! (17:37:45) BobCortex: it was fun reading people bicker about it (17:38:09) Eclipse: heh (17:38:26) BobCortex: fun stuff like "piolts" saying they wouldn't even really notice a diffrence on takeoff (17:38:52) Eclipse: they wouldnt, the airplane would still accelerate like normal (17:38:59) Eclipse: the wheels would be spinning faster or slower only (17:39:10) BobCortex: but take off would never happen (17:39:13) BobCortex: no climax! (17:39:26) Eclipse: the wheels do not pull the airplane! (17:39:37) Eclipse: the engines pull it forward and therefore judge acceleration (17:39:59) Eclipse: a treadmill would only change how fast the wheels spin (17:40:30) Eclipse: like a car spinning out on ice, the car still moves forward at the same velocity (due to inertia) and the wheels spin really fast (17:40:53) Eclipse: the airplane is similar except the engine cause the motion instead of inertia (17:41:05) Eclipse: and the treadmill would only change how fast the wheels spin (17:41:26) Eclipse: once the airplane accelerates enough, lift will form under the wings and takeoff would happen (17:41:42) BobCortex: but its not really moving (17:42:01) Eclipse: yes it IS (17:42:08) Eclipse: you're thinking of a car (17:42:13) Eclipse: thats not how airplanes taxi (17:42:19) BobCortex: ok (17:42:23) BobCortex: you keep changing your mind (17:42:29) Eclipse: no im not (17:42:34) BobCortex: i know the wheels on a plane dont actually move it (17:42:46) BobCortex: they roll freely and have brakes (17:43:34) BobCortex: sure the plane would accelerate on the treadmill. but it wouldn't really be moving in physical space (17:43:46) BobCortex: is the conculsion from earlier (17:44:28) BobCortex: heh (17:44:32) Eclipse: wrong (17:44:49) Eclipse: the airplane only needs air to move (17:44:58) Eclipse: otherwise it would be a real shitty airplane (17:45:18) BobCortex: ugh hurting my head (17:45:18) Eclipse: so the treadmill will not affect the acceleration (17:45:39) Eclipse: unless the treadmill is in a perfect vacuum, the airplane will move in space (17:45:53) Eclipse: because it uses the air to accel and not the motion of the wheels (17:45:55) BobCortex: but the treadmill is preventing it from actually moving foward to get lift (17:46:08) Eclipse: no, the treadmill only moves the wheels (17:46:40) Eclipse: if there were no wheels, and the plane's belly was sitting on the treadmill then maybe (17:46:52) Eclipse: but the wheels spin freely (17:47:28) BobCortex: plane acceleration -----> <------ treadmill (17:47:59) BobCortex: if its moving the plane backwards as its trying to move foward. its not really going anywhere (17:48:36) Eclipse: thats what i am trying to say, it doesnt move the airplane (17:48:47) BobCortex: right its spinning the wheels (17:48:54) BobCortex: and the wheels are connected to the plane (17:49:05) Eclipse: i think that's where you are not getting it (17:49:22) Eclipse: are the brakes on? (17:49:24) BobCortex: no (17:49:38) Eclipse: then why would moving the wheel move the airplane? (17:50:06) BobCortex: but the engines are pulling it foward (17:50:28) Eclipse: if you attach a rope to a wagon and put the wagon on the treadmill, will the treadmill pull you? (17:51:00) Eclipse: now what happens if you pull the wagon? (17:51:07) Eclipse: the wagon comes towards you (17:51:18) Eclipse: the wheels are what prevents the treadmill from having any effect! (17:51:32) BobCortex: trickery (17:51:33) Eclipse: now the airplanes engines provide that same force as you pulling the rope (17:51:59) Eclipse: because the airplane can accelerate independantly of the treadmill (17:52:11) Eclipse: thats not true for a car (17:52:25) Eclipse: cars need the friction between the wheel and the ground to move (17:52:27) BobCortex: i thought the treadmill would act to keep it in place. as in someone running on one. like a propelled treadmill. not one of thoes free running ones (17:52:27) Eclipse: airplanes do not (17:52:45) Eclipse: the person would need the friction (17:52:56) Eclipse: airplanes do not need friction under the wheels to move (17:54:11) BobCortex: so glad i never took physics (17:54:22) Eclipse: do you get it though? (17:55:16) Eclipse: i have to go soon (17:56:11) BobCortex: so the engines pull the aircraft. regardless of what the wheels are doing. beacuse the wheels do absoluty nothing except keep the plane from falling over. (17:56:19) BobCortex: someone needs to build a giant ass treadmill (17:56:32) Eclipse: thats right (17:56:48) BobCortex: no matter how fast the mill goes it wont affect the plane (17:56:54) Eclipse: right (17:56:58) BobCortex: just makes the hwels spin faster (17:57:01) Eclipse: right (17:57:13) Eclipse: or slower, if the treadmill is going the other way (17:57:41) BobCortex: crazy airplanes (17:58:12) Eclipse: they have to rely on the air or they will be useless after leaving the ground (17:58:20) Eclipse: like a car in the air can't do anything (17:58:43) BobCortex: so the plane will justhop off the treadmill and carry on its way (17:58:48) Eclipse: yup (17:59:00) BobCortex: sorcery! (17:59:09) Eclipse: physics! The answer: The airplane will take off and the pilots will not notice any difference |
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Rick told me yesterday that Will and he and some other people I guess want to go to seven springs or something for the skiing. He also told me that Will doesn't want any newbies along to slow him down. I can only assume he means me, maybe among others. Oh well, it doesn't really matter this year because I don't have the money for ski-blading anywhere, and even if I did I'd probably fall and hurt myself again. This would be bad right before my commercial pilot practical test. I don't have the money to even afford rent anymore cause we're still down one roommate! So who the fuck knows what's going to happen!? It's so awesome!
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 Yash, you've never told anyone what exactly it was that made you hate bob, so in no way does that mean that I, or anyone else has to hate him. I've also been telling you to stop drinking since the 10th grade, but you never listen to me. All of a sudden some girl comes along and you decide to change just for her? It sounds like you don't need me as any type of factor in that decision. I'm tired of you blaming me for not hanging out with you when you don't call in like 6 months either and all of a sudden it's my fault? Recently after that I can't hang out a few times when you ask about 15 minutes in advance? I'm sorry, It's not like I hate you or not want to be with you but you can't ask 15 minutes in advance. My life is more busy than I know what to do with. I would love to see you and rick and jo and will and tim and tim and dan and bob and nate and everyone more, but I have a lot of crap to do. Just give me a little notice and I always try to do my best. And I'm never going to start taking you seriously until you stop signing offline everytime you respond to me. I guess these are just lost words....
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Immediately following Kerry's call to the white house, president had this to say:
"My fellow americans, justice has been won on this cold November day. Our resolve to punish our enemies has shown through God's beautiful sky and warmed my heart. The national democratic party has stuck terror into the hearts of our children, and I stand by the resolve I made 3 years ago. America has a new enemy. An enemy that goes by unseen. 48% of the nation's population is affected by it. We will find these democratic terrorists and bring them to justice with swiftness and inpunity. Our resolve makes it so. In preparation for this holy event, I, as your president, have called a presidential order to ban the selling, buying, or use, of the game Halo 2. Yes, much resolve. Thank you and may god have mercy on your souls. ha ha ha ha HA!" This is a sad day for Americans 48% realize it right now 52% will realize it in the next 4 years
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http://www.macfora.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16561
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